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422d retrofeit

Discussion in 'Commercial' started by pintofstout, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. pintofstout

    pintofstout New Member

    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    Olean, NY
    Sure do. I need someone who can squeeze behind that chiller and close the suction access. And install a suction drier while you're at it...


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  2. Y7turbo

    Y7turbo New Member

    Messages:
    10,069
    Location:
    Illinois
    My buddy had some issues with the exv's when using NU22 on a carrier chiller. Low suction, can't maintain superheat. Put in r22, ran like a dream.

    I think it has to do with the glide on those blends and the fact that the chiller uses temperature probes in the refrigerant and converts that to pressure . The different pressures and temperatures throw the exv logic out of wack. Now if someone could reflash the logic in the controllers, it would work.
     
    Daryl_Dixon likes this.
  3. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

    Messages:
    21,669
    Location:
    in the Cabana
    Basically the same shit you are now working on just a little bigger
     
    jamesyarbrough likes this.
  4. MOFO the psychic gorilla

    MOFO the psychic gorilla sitting on two achers

    Messages:
    1,604
    Knowing what I know now everything would have got 134 back then. What a needless headache back then. Lesson learned.
     
  5. mike1020

    mike1020 entitled millennial

    Messages:
    17,432
    Location:
    SoDoSoPa
    Yep. Like crackertech said, have a lot of oil return problems with 422d with medium and low temp.

    Haven't used 422d for air conditioning though, just for /r
     
  6. 22blood

    22blood red wire nuts only

    Messages:
    1,699
    At 100 degree ambient the blend separates. The South can't use it
     
  7. mike1020

    mike1020 entitled millennial

    Messages:
    17,432
    Location:
    SoDoSoPa
    Wally had problems with vfd condenser fans surging on and off because the controller don't have the pressure/temperature right for 422d
     
  8. Daryl_Dixon

    Daryl_Dixon New Member

    Messages:
    3,491
    I'm so glad our seven 2000-ton chillers are not on R-22
     
  9. Zman

    Zman Hanging by a Thread

    Messages:
    524
    Location:
    The "I know a Guy" State
    Our lead tech had a customer who wanted his chiller system converted to R422D,so he made him sign a waiver explaining the potential problems.When the poor oil return killed the compressor(s),He was off the hook for the Funeral and the Reincarnation.
     
  10. pintofstout

    pintofstout New Member

    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    Olean, NY
    Did he convert to POE?


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  11. pintofstout

    pintofstout New Member

    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    Olean, NY
    I'm getting good oil return but my suction is too low and the oil is foaming. Good superheat and subcooling.

    My fear is that the oil isn't going to lubricate well and the internals are going to heat up even though the oil isn't traveling out into the system.

    Also having head pressure issues because somehow tower water flow has diminished in the past couple days, the r22 side is also high.


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  12. pintofstout

    pintofstout New Member

    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    Olean, NY
    Think I'm going to a mix of poe/mineral

    Edit: the r22 circuit also has foamy oil. Now I'm not so sure


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  13. Bustawrench

    Bustawrench Knucklehead

    Messages:
    10,894
    Location:
    South Jersey
    We have been using 422b without issues, at least none so far.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
     
  14. pintofstout

    pintofstout New Member

    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    Olean, NY
    Sight glass doesn't suddenly clear like 22, just gets gradually less cloudy, must be a wide blend. Visibly a much higher velocity.

    Ten degrees of superheat without adjustment. Fifteen degrees of subcooling. Sight glass cleared at around twelve degrees subcooling.

    Approach is 12-14 which is pushing my saturated suction a little below where i like but it does have glycol, 26%.

    Oil, after some run time, no longer foamy. In fact less foaming then the r22 stage.

    Discharge superheat 50-60 degrees, 150 degree line.

    Head pressure is normal now that i have reestablished condenser flow.

    I like it. Thought about leaving it run overnight but these Carlisle compressors don't know when they run outta oil. Hate to find out its slowly migrating away.


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    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  15. NZ All Blacks Fan

    NZ All Blacks Fan Just Another swinging Dick

    Messages:
    9,287
    Location:
    West Coast - Canada
    407C is on the shit list aka getting discontinued.

    Im currently looking for a R22 replacement Hope to hear from you guys experimentations with the other alternatives before I jump.

    Currently I have a small Mquay screw chiller running on R22 ( ive stockpiled R22 on site to keep it running ) Mquay wants to sell me a new chiller running on 410A - another ref on the hit list
     
  16. Tap

    Tap i hate it when a velociraptor throws poop at me

    Messages:
    10,225
    Location:
    Lost
    Most major manufacturers of systems/ chillers/ compressors will not aprove anything other than 22 134 410a 407c in the arena of applications that your chiller is in. Obviously refrigeration low temp chillers low pressure chillers etc use other gases. My point is if emerson which is copeland and Carlyle liebert trane carrier the useual equipment will void the hell out of any warranty with an un approved gas, potentially point fingers if called in on old equipment etc. And ive done alllllllot of research some of these blends have barely been tested ahri or other labs other than some lab in god knows where . Some of these blends are the same components just different quantities component wise. We will retro to 407c and do an oil change or drop 22 back in.

    Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk
     
  17. pintofstout

    pintofstout New Member

    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    Olean, NY
    It's been a couple days now and the system looks good.

    Major problem is that if i didn't have glycol my suction would be too low; then again without glycol maybe it wouldn't be so low.


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  18. NZ All Blacks Fan

    NZ All Blacks Fan Just Another swinging Dick

    Messages:
    9,287
    Location:
    West Coast - Canada
    So Me stockpiling R22 at site on the customers dime - is the exact right move in this case thanks for the perspective this will give me less headaches
     
    Tap likes this.
  19. flange

    flange Act like you care and do SOMETHING!!

    Messages:
    12,616
    Location:
    IMT--in my truck
    well, yes and no. It depends on how much you stockpile and how their insurer views the pile. Some insurers don't allow you to stockpile on site, in which case your friendly supplier can stockpile it for you and supply it upon demand at a later date.
     
    Bustawrench likes this.
  20. Zman

    Zman Hanging by a Thread

    Messages:
    524
    Location:
    The "I know a Guy" State
    Did R12,22 and 502 really Help Destroy the Ozone? Or did some Scientific E.P.A. Nerds working off a Government Grant,needing to Justify thier jobs,had to give some answers?