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Beware York Affinity Series condensers

Discussion in 'Residential' started by kena, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    Beware if you buy one of these for a retrofit. I ordered 2 - 16 SEER York condensers and they sold me their new Affinity series units. Much to my surprise... you have to wire these units with a 3 wire thermostat harness. These units need a constant 24 volts to a circuit board. You need a wire from your red wire, your common on the transformer, and your yellow from your thermostat. So... if it's a retrofit, most of the time you only have a 2 wire. This is ok if the air handler is in the basement... you can just run a new wire. But, if you have an air handler in the attic... much harder to run a new wire.

    Now if you're really creative... you can make this work without running a third wire from the attic. But, make sure you don't blow up your new circuit boards....

    There's nothing in the installation manual that is really clear about this whole situation. And absolutely no alternative wiring for a two wire situation. You just have to be creative. I wired the upstairs and downstairs air handlers to the two condensers by wiring the two transformers from the air handlers together (sort of), and pulled the 24 constant volts to the circuit boards off of the cellar air handler. You also have to make sure the polarity of the two transformers is the same... or you need to change the polarity of one of them so they are. Anyway... buyer beware. New construction... no problem. Just run a 5-7 wire and you'll have no issues.
     
  2. frozensolid

    frozensolid Psychologist's Dream

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    12,259
    Location:
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    I have seen similar things where they just sent R and Y out and used ground as common. I think they need be fed from same panel to work.

    Not advisable but it works. Run new wire even if it's hard. Don't be lazy.
     
    Climachris likes this.
  3. Climachris

    Climachris New Member

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    105
    Location:
    Southeast Missouri
    I know this would add complexity, and more parts to fail, but if no way to run new wire, why not install a transformer in the outdoor unit, and a relay that would have the coil controlled from existing 2 wire from inside, switching the 24 volts from the transformer from the outdoor unit.
     
    DeHeatify, Jim54, mike1020 and 8 others like this.
  4. kena

    kena New Member

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    762
    Sometimes it has nothing to do with being lazy. I work in allot of $2-$3 million dollar homes. Most are 3 floors of luxury. No way to run a 3 wire without bringing it outside somehow and down. Customer usually doesn't like that solution.

    Here's how I wired this particular situation... and it is theoretically correct and works fine.

    I took the 2 wire from the attic air handler that had the two wire from common on the transformer, and the second wire off of yellow on the thermostat. Brought that down to the cellar air handler and hooked up the wire from the attic that was hooked to common on the transformer, to the common off the cellar air handler transformer. I ran a new 3 wire out to the condenser, and just used the red off that transformer to the red going out, the yellow stayed to the new three wire yellow, and the other wire off the new wire to common. It works as long as the polarity is the same on both transformers. If not, all you have to do is change black and white in the breaker panel to the air handler, or change the polarity on one of the transformers.
     
  5. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    I thought of that first... then convinced myself this could be done with the existing equipment. Above is what I came up with, and both condensers started right up. Voltages were perfect. To say I wasn't worried about blowing a board. Now that I know it won't...
     
  6. jpb2

    jpb2 Dog Tard *

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    47,160
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    within the bounds of reality
    Next guy on site is gonna smoke something.
     
    mike1020 and knave like this.
  7. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    Now if there was only a boiler downstairs, and we were talking hydro air... yes, you could do this with an extra transformer.
     
  8. kena

    kena New Member

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    762
    I actually wrote out a wiring diagram and explanation and left it in the air handler. Will someone smoke it... possibly. But, I got the home owner to put it in writing he approved the wiring and took responsibility if something blew. So he owns it now.
     
    jpb2 likes this.
  9. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    Part of this whole thing is feeling confident in your ability to wire it without being overly concerned you're gonna blow something.
    I've had allot of electrical courses over the years and have a good understanding of how shit works. So you can be creative without
    being stupid.
     
  10. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    Or you can just be stupid without being creative ;)
     
  11. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    Another thing about this York Affinity series. It is touted as being quieter than their normal units. They actually use a plastic shroud and cover the compressor. Then when you open the side door to the compressor there's a thick piece of insulation you remove to get at the compressor. So you really don't hear the compressor. HOWEVER... the freaking thing rattles like a there's no screws holding it together. You hear a rattle in one place and put your finger against the metal and it stops. How about some rubber gasket wherever metal touches metal since it's a horrible cabinet design? I actually used thermostat insulation between some of the metal panels and then put the screws back in to reduce some of the rattling. I got it reasonably quiet... The Affinity series has allot of cool features. But, needs some tweaking for the next round of units.
     
  12. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

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    Not that I have ever done it but you can use the line set as the the neutral
     
  13. kena

    kena New Member

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    762
    lol... yeah, I'd rather not go that route. :mrbill:
     
  14. pecmsg

    pecmsg Junior my ASS

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    Then they have to fix it :D
     
  15. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

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    It's only 24 volts
     
  16. kena

    kena New Member

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    Yeah... but if you really want to screw with the next guy who comes along.... I'd say using the lineset as neutral would
    probably screw with him really good. Hey... maybe that isn't such a bad idea :cheers:
     
  17. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    I think it would be easy to just hang a 24 volt step down transformer on a utility box in the cellar, hook up a 3 wire from there to the condenser, and hook the two wire up to that transformer using red and neutral, with the yellow to the thermostat wire. Just make sure the polarity is right. You can figure that out if you get voltage at the unit where you shouldn't on the three wires. Then just change the two wires on the 120 side. That will change the polarity of the transformer.
     
  18. Chuck

    Chuck SSP

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    Buy Trane communicating. They only need 2 wires and are much better than the York Affinity
     
    mike1020 likes this.
  19. Chuck

    Chuck SSP

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    That's not going to work to use one power source for hot and another one for common, doesn't make a complete circuit.

    All you have to do is use the liquid line for your common. I have done it before.

    Use the 2 wires you have for Y and R then ground the common side of air handler transformer to liquid line and at the outdoor unit do the same thing with C
     
  20. Chuck

    Chuck SSP

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    Location:
    LAX
    Why not? He isn't talking about the 120 volt neutral. It works fine.