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Controls question

Discussion in 'Commercial' started by Rather B Riding, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Rather B Riding

    Rather B Riding Behind bars

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    454
    This building I take care of recently replaced an old 25 ton Voyager with an intelipak. Our controls Dept also replaced the automation system. The old automation system had a lot of control of the voyager. The ipak all we are doing right now is start stop and it is operating as a stand alone.
    Question is if we install a back net card and tie it into the controls will we be able to control all ipak functions through the automation system.
    I know it is a Honeywell controls system Im not sure which one. I'm not a controls guy at all. I will find out.
     
  2. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

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    22,047
    Location:
    in the Cabana
    Just install a T87:lachen::lachen::lachen::lachen::lachen:
     
    newtech likes this.
  3. flange

    flange Act like you care and do SOMETHING!!

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    12,790
    Location:
    IMT--in my truck
    Bacnet. In general, you can control any writeable( changeable) point. so, for example, when your controls guys pulls the bacnet points list into the BAS, he can decide which points of those that are writeable can be used and map them to the graphics. NOT all points can be written to, Trane can/will provide you with the Bacnet points list upon purchase of the card.
     
    Rather B Riding likes this.
  4. LemonWizard

    LemonWizard Blinky Lights Wizard

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    2,098
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    Ohighyo
    This is how it should go but how it will really go is that trane will send you a generic points list from 2 versions ago and when you finally get an accurate points list half the points you want won't be enabled.

    Then you'll have to rely on discovery.
     
    mike1020 and Rather B Riding like this.
  5. Rather B Riding

    Rather B Riding Behind bars

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    454
    Controls guy already ordered and picked up the bacnet board but we have not been back to install it yet. I don't have a whole lot of confidence in our controls Dept.
    The reason I ask is that I had another Tech say that sometimes when Ipak has a bacnet board it's still a read only. You can see what it's doing but not have control.
    The discussion ran into unit set up on the HIP inside the unit. Stand alone or BAS with bacnet. My thought was you could have a bacnet card in the unit and still have it running stand alone and the BAS would only let you read SP, RA and SA temps etc.
    It's all in unit set up right? I'm sure it's in my Trane book but I don't have it and trying to a little better understanding before get back to the site and have to install it.
     
  6. flange

    flange Act like you care and do SOMETHING!!

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    12,790
    Location:
    IMT--in my truck
    I'm not familiar with actual implementation, my guy does that, but I understand the process. We don't see much Trane stuff, so I cannot speak well about what they do....BUT, the idea of Bacnet is to not only read you read points, but to change those variable setpoints remotely.
     
    Rather B Riding likes this.
  7. newtech

    newtech 636

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    832
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    Michigan
    Around here, JCI will give the customer a Bacnet to change some set points, but not for the actual programming.

    From my experience with Trane, you have to buy the software and cables to connect to the unit. We had a 7.5 ton ceiling mounted heat pump that was acting up. It was locked out, you could reset it and it would run for a while and lock out again. The only way to find out what it was locking out on, was to connect it to a computer with the software and cables.

    The software was around 750.00 our cost.
     
    Rather B Riding likes this.
  8. flange

    flange Act like you care and do SOMETHING!!

    Messages:
    12,790
    Location:
    IMT--in my truck
    bacnet isn't for field people to program, its essentially a data translator, sortof like a French to English dictionary. the idea is that you expose network variables in a defined manner(points list) so that various systems can communicate as one. there are read only points and those which can be written to such as discharge air setpoint. it allows an intellipack, for example to expose points to a Johnson, Honeywell or other type of bas

    as far as your trane heat pump, that's a different software, probably Rover, which had different modules and versions to communicate with specific unitary equipment.
     
  9. freeworld

    freeworld Freon Jockey

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    169
    Location:
    Great Northwest
    In my experience with Trane Integrations, you might be able to control some of the unit functions, simple stuff like occupied/ unoccupied, shutdown. And will probably be able to write to a few of the set points, I wouldn't expect too much beyond that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    LemonWizard likes this.
  10. Zman

    Zman Hanging by a Thread

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    775
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    The "I know a Guy" State
    Whatever happened to K.I.S.S., Keep It Simple Service techs?
     
    Rather B Riding likes this.
  11. Rather B Riding

    Rather B Riding Behind bars

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    454
    I wish. There was a salesman involved in this. My thought was just to replace it with another voyager.

    The problem I see with this unit and new set up is that it has 11 vav boxes with hot water reheat coils. If the building is in unoccupied and the space gets cold the blower has to run for heat. The customer doesn't want the blower running 24/7 . The way the old voyager and BAS was set up it would do that. There's a few other things too but the new BASS needs better control of unit functions. More than just start stop.
     
  12. flange

    flange Act like you care and do SOMETHING!!

    Messages:
    12,790
    Location:
    IMT--in my truck
    Sounds like a tracker system would have been a good choice for that job.
     
  13. Rather B Riding

    Rather B Riding Behind bars

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    454
    Kind of too late now. These are things beyond my control. Just stuck in the aftermath trying to make things work for my customer.
     
  14. newtech

    newtech 636

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    Michigan
    Any base board heat in the area???
     
  15. heavyevans

    heavyevans FNG

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    There could be other options, but a lot more info would be needed. The VAV's are just pinch boxes and not fan powered?
     
  16. Rather B Riding

    Rather B Riding Behind bars

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    454
    VAV s are not fan power boxes. Damper only with a hot water coil.
     
  17. Rather B Riding

    Rather B Riding Behind bars

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    454
    I'm gonna do it. 1505429575828-1123741012.jpg
     
  18. NZ All Blacks Fan

    NZ All Blacks Fan Just Another swinging Dick

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    Location:
    West Coast - Canada
  19. LemonWizard

    LemonWizard Blinky Lights Wizard

    Messages:
    2,098
    Location:
    Ohighyo
    In theory you should be able to make the blower run only when you want it to through integration.

    I won't say that you absolutely can, because it depends on how much trane has locked you out in this particular production run. Points you need may or may not be enabled.

    I know the last time we wanted to control fan speed in one the damned things for example we had to actually cut jumpers (per trane, after 4 hours on the phone) on the board so that the integrated circuit would allow control of the fan through software/integration.
     
    Rather B Riding and freeworld like this.
  20. freeworld

    freeworld Freon Jockey

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    169
    Location:
    Great Northwest
    I was going to say the same, any unit spec'd for a VAV application on an unoccupied call for heat, whatever control system there is should be able to start the fan.
     
    Rather B Riding likes this.