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copper pipe expansion joints on fin rads

Discussion in 'Commercial' started by NZ All Blacks Fan, May 19, 2017.

  1. NZ All Blacks Fan

    NZ All Blacks Fan Just Another swinging Dick

    Messages:
    9,404
    Location:
    West Coast - Canada
    Ive got an old building with exterior rads runs are about 30 ft they have expansion joints ( slip joints ) 50 + yrs old and leaking occasionally
    1 do I need them ? Im thinking the expansion rate is 1/2 inch or less your thoughts?

    2 replace with new joints or just cut them out and pipe up
     
  2. pecmsg

    pecmsg Junior my ASS

    Messages:
    21,222
    Location:
    Eastern LI
    A horizontal p- trap makes an expansion joint
     
    Daryl_Dixon and Catpower like this.
  3. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

    Messages:
    22,341
    Location:
    in the Cabana
    It has to have room to expand somewhere. I had a buddy that did the steam pipes in a bug gymnasium they built in Yankton SDak, the drawings had the 24 inch pipe ell off right beside the outside was, he told them that he needed to change it to allow for expansion, they told him he was to do it according to the drawings so he did

    The first time they fired up the boilers the pipe expanded and pushed to outside wall down, major **** up but at least he was smart enough to get their response in writing and he kept it on file, there sure was a bunch of finger pointing there
     
    Ballvalve79 likes this.
  4. Ballvalve79

    Ballvalve79 It's only fire what could go wrong

    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Northwest PA
    Gotta love an engineer response to common logic. And then he hung em with thier own rope. I love it.
     
    Catpower likes this.
  5. Daryl_Dixon

    Daryl_Dixon New Member

    Messages:
    3,780
    I don't know.

    It raises the question: Is it okay (legal, ethical, professional, etc) to do something wrong that poses severe safety concerns just because "you have been told to so" in writing?

    He's lucky a lawyer didn't decide to ask that question...
     
  6. Daryl_Dixon

    Daryl_Dixon New Member

    Messages:
    3,780
    If a customer signs off for me to vent their exhaust into the kitchen, it doesn't mean I should do it because I'm supposed to know better.
     
  7. Ballvalve79

    Ballvalve79 It's only fire what could go wrong

    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Northwest PA
    The PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER with all his schooling and smarts makes the print and we have to work from that. If it's documented that you had concern and were told to still do it that's gonna be alot easier to explain than if you made a change and the PE either didn't bless it or "had no knowledge of the change". As s many times I have heard design professionals beat up the trades I like to see them fail once in awhile.
     
  8. mike1020

    mike1020 entitled millennial

    Messages:
    18,344
    Location:
    on the roof of target
    Had that at a new menards store.

    The hangers the fire sprinkler pipes hung from couldn't hold the weight of the water in the pipes.

    So when they turned the water on for the sprinkler system, the hangers all let loose and the pipes all fell down.
     
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  9. Daryl_Dixon

    Daryl_Dixon New Member

    Messages:
    3,780
    I don't know. If I knew I was going to build something that would knock a wall down, I might walk away before endangering lives and limbs of others...regardless of what a PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER said. I'm simply pointing out that refusing to do negligent work 'is' an option too.
     
  10. Ballvalve79

    Ballvalve79 It's only fire what could go wrong

    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Northwest PA
    I agree about negligence but there is a huge difference in a customer telling you to do something and an engineer giving direction on print and then refusing to revisit the plans
     
  11. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

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    Location:
    in the Cabana
    He didn't know for sure if it would knock it down, just concerned there wasn't ample space for expansion, the engineer said there was enough space

    So you would walk away from a 3-4 million dollar job that you had collected possibly half to three quarters of the amount?

    Wish I had your kind of money, guess I taught you well on selling big blue wire nuts:lachen::lachen:
     
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  12. iceout70

    iceout70 New Member

    Messages:
    25
    Does this mean that when you put it all in writing that you also put that the engineer has to be there to watch the start up of the boilers?

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
     
  13. flange

    flange Act like you care and do SOMETHING!!

    Messages:
    12,876
    Location:
    IMT--in my truck
  14. NZ All Blacks Fan

    NZ All Blacks Fan Just Another swinging Dick

    Messages:
    9,404
    Location:
    West Coast - Canada
  15. HMD

    HMD does it matter?

    Messages:
    93,445
    Location:
    here
    you running waste lines?
     
  16. NZ All Blacks Fan

    NZ All Blacks Fan Just Another swinging Dick

    Messages:
    9,404
    Location:
    West Coast - Canada
    no current expansion joint in existing 60s era heating system - wall mounted low profile rads is leaking

    tenant is a giant dink - doctor dink another company "fixed" the joint in January ( does not leak when hot -140 plus when cooled aka heat off it leaks ) - it went 4 months without leaking but here we are now heating is off and it leaks very slowly
     
  17. flange

    flange Act like you care and do SOMETHING!!

    Messages:
    12,876
    Location:
    IMT--in my truck
    cut that chit out and pipe it hard. when piping it hard, place shims in the riser opening so that the copper risers are pushed toward the center of the emitter. once it heats up and expands it will settle in about the center of the riser holes. You are only talking 3/8th of an inch for Christ sake.
     
  18. NZ All Blacks Fan

    NZ All Blacks Fan Just Another swinging Dick

    Messages:
    9,404
    Location:
    West Coast - Canada
    why in the fk did the fkn engineers spec them ? FFS - anyways kinda outa my hands - unfortunately when they did the install the pipes are tight in the holes -dang
     
  19. flange

    flange Act like you care and do SOMETHING!!

    Messages:
    12,876
    Location:
    IMT--in my truck
    to accurately understand that, one needs to understand engineers. Its a little something like this:

    engineers design what they know and what is tried and true, in general. So, mr engineer is laying out a project. He knows that a 20 degree delta tee and 180 degree supply water will keep his boilers from condensing, and allow his heat emitters to put enough heat in the room. He also knows the metals expand and contract when heated and cooled. There is a sales rep from ABC company who stops in his office one a month and talks about products, sometimes even doing a "lunch and learn" seminar, while the engineers eat free lunch and the sales rep speaks about his products. Said engineer knows he has an expansion and contraction situation, and that the nice guy who bought him lunch sells a solution. They discuss it, and it becomes part of the plans.
     
    Zman likes this.
  20. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

    Messages:
    22,341
    Location:
    in the Cabana

    I think it is more than a free lunch they get to spec something, on some of the shit I have seen spec'ed there had to be a good kick back
     
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