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First Company air handler issues

Discussion in 'Residential' started by kena, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    Anyone install these things? I have 3 of them, all hydro air (30HBXB-HW). 2 of them use a Honeywell zone duct board, and one is stand alone.

    I get the air conditioning to work no problem. And I get the heat to work no problem. However... the way I have it wired... when I turn off heat, the Taco zone board says that thermostat is still calling. It's not....

    I tried a different zone board and I get the same thing. I have tried allot of combinations of wiring for the heat side of things. The install instructions are simple... but something is wrong.

    Wiring at the air handler:

    AH Green - Therm Green
    AH Brown - Therm Blue (brown is common)
    AH White - Therm White
    Ah Red - Therm Red... not sure of this because I have red for R and I use orange for RC

    For AC, I hook my two wire to the condenser from the common (brown) and the yellow from the therm.
    Works fine. I even tried a jumper between R and RC... still says I'm calling for heat when I'm not.

    For Heat, I hook white from ah to white from therm. The two wire to the zone board is using white, and I was using red.... however, white is actually part of the blower fan cycle. So the fan never shuts off. So I pulled it off the red wire from the AH. So it's just red from the therm to one wire, and the other wire to the AH white and the therm white. I have tried several combinations, but nothing will tell the zone boards the thermostat is no longer calling. I'm lost... I heard First Company have some odd things you have to deal with...
     
  2. Ballvalve79

    Ballvalve79 It's only fire what could go wrong

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    Location:
    Northwest PA
    I actually have one here at my house Cool only hooked up never needed the hot water coil yet. My stat is wired cool y. fan g r power the ahu wiring looks simple enough I'm not sure about this zone panel you speak of
     

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  3. knave

    knave Undeterred

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    Rh and w from thermostat to zone board, this should turn on water flow to the hydronic coil, and fire the boiler (with xx).
    Hydronic air handler (should have) a snap disc or aqua stat to bring on the fan (r to g) when coil gets warm. If not, wire one in, they’re cheap.
     
  4. kena

    kena New Member

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    762
    a
    Did all that. When I turn on the thermostat the air handler blower comes on and the Taco zone board says it's calling and starts the circulator. All good except when I turn off the thermostat. It still shows calling on the Taco, and another new board I tried. The blower won't shut off because theres hot water going through the coil. It's runnaway heat
     
  5. Ballvalve79

    Ballvalve79 It's only fire what could go wrong

    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    Northwest PA
    That sounds logical. It looks to me like the ahu has the ability to turn the pump on and off as well as the zone valve. As I say min is cool only the hw pipe is above it and capped never hooked it up it really just a back up plan for my radiant floors.
     
  6. doc havoc

    doc havoc A cunning linguist

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    Somebody drove a nail through the stat wire and shorted R to W?
     
    knave and Ballvalve79 like this.
  7. crackertech

    crackertech assholiness *

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    Why does it have to be a nail?? Could of been a staple.:chairshot::D
     
  8. Ballvalve79

    Ballvalve79 It's only fire what could go wrong

    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    Northwest PA
    Or a drywall screw and blame the Mexican crew
     
  9. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    I would completely agree... but all three are doing this and they are 3 separate wires. Trust me though... wouldn't shock me. Our electricians wired them up initially, and on the third floor shorted the ac thermostat wire to the cellar and out to the unit. They had to cut holes in walls all the way down to replace it. This is a 3 story $2.5 million dollar house. They used electrical staples and slammed all of the thermostat wires. But... I have a hard time believing they could have shorted R and W on all 3
     
  10. knave

    knave Undeterred

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    If you remove the control wires from the zone panel, what happens? If the pump stops, then you have a wiring problem.
     
    jpb2 likes this.
  11. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    It does.... so I definitely have a wiring problem. Just can't get to the bottom of it
     
  12. knave

    knave Undeterred

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    Location:
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    Is the hydronic coil aquastat backfeeding to close TT (RW) on the zone panel?

    This would create the “holding circuit” you are describing. Just a wild guess. To check this, unplug the aquastat during runaway mode.
     
  13. knave

    knave Undeterred

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    If this ahu has the ability, why use a zone panel?
     
  14. kena

    kena New Member

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    Three air handlers with 5 thermostats, plus an indirect water heater... what would you suggest?
     
  15. knave

    knave Undeterred

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    5 thermostats, so 2 of the ahu have two air zones?
     
  16. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    Two of the ahu have two thermostats. One on the 2nd floor, and one on the third floor each. And... they are wired through a Honeywell zone board by the ahu's. One wire goes down to the zone board in the cellar. There's an ahu in the cellar that runs the first floor.

    Here's what I found yesterday. I traced the cellar ahu wire to the zone board. The brilliant electricians we have used Romex staples to hold the thermostat wires and hammered them as hard as they could. I ran a wire from the ahu to the zone board to bypass that shitty wire, and voila, it worked fine. So... I think they destroyed the two wire for heat from the third flloor down as well. They won't release the zone calling from those floors. I may be screwed... or actually the electricians. This house is having an open house today. After the open house.... someone is going to have to cut walls to run new wires. Then it will have to be fixed and repainted. Our electricians are geniuses. I do all my own wiring on any job I do, including the high voltage. If I don't, we lose money, and they screw it up anyway. So I wire all our boilers, ac, and furnaces from the box to the units.
     
  17. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    On the third floor they installed two air handlers. They added two zone dampers. One for the third floor, and one for half the second floor, and the other ahu for the other half of the 2nd and 3rd floor. They also put thermostats on the second floor on each side that run to the ahu's on the 3rd floor. So I have a Honeywell zone duct board to handle the two zone ducts on each ahu. Then there's one two wire that goes to the cellar from both of the ahu's. I was only tasked to install 3 condensers and the thermostats. The linesets were already installed and capped off outside. I installed everything and went to do a startup. Nothing worked. I checked the 3 ahu's and not one of them was wired right. I rewired everything and I got everything to work. The only issue was the zone board just wouldn't stop calling in heating mode when the thermostat was turned off. By changing the 2 wire in the cellar which has a ahu that has no zones... runs all of down stairs, it worked. So........... I am going to try putting a 7.5 resistor between C and W on the thermostats upstairs before going postal. Sometimes digital thermostats bleed voltage and continue to call even after turning off, which most of you already know.
     
  18. knave

    knave Undeterred

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    Only power stealing thermostats do. Good luck, sounds like you’ll need it!
     
  19. crackertech

    crackertech assholiness *

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    I caught my thermostat stealing power and I called the popo and pressed charges:tard:
     
  20. kena

    kena New Member

    Messages:
    762
    Had one of those on this job too. Replaced it... and heat comes on, but stays on.